:mad:This is a complaint about people who do not know the rules about bow fishing or the people who dont care about the rules. If you have been to the Rend Lake spillway you will know what I am talking about. It seems that each time I go there someone is shooting carp and gar and then turning them lose to die. There are fish that are just belly up with holes in them rotting with maggots from your fun. KEEP YOUR FISH! If you are to lazy to keep them then dont go. Bowfishing is not catch and release. I hate seeing these losers letting these fish go and die. IT SMELLS IT STINKS and it gives your bowfishing friends a bad reputation. If you see this take place call the gamewarden and if you are doing it. STOP!

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch.:( Glad you spoke up maybe some of them don't even realize what they are doing.:cool:

Don't go below the Carlyle dam then, if that made ya mad.

You'll be yellin at shore fishermen also then... Last time I was there, there were lots of huge fish laying in the rocks just rotting away and people seemed to just keep adding to the piles:(

Well, you guys have just convinced me I don't want to go to either place now!

Maybe they are having a fish kill like at Baldwin Lake..Dead animals sometimes get holes rotting through them.

Not cool! The spill way is just too high traffic area for this to happen. One of the things we try to get across to people is to have a plan on what to do with your fish before you go!!!

'sink, did you see someone dumping fish, or just the fish? Because like RoninSI said, there are quite a few ways for fish to get dead below a spillway that do not include bowfishing. Just something to consider. I have been down there before and seen fish on the bank that were not taken with bow and arrow. I remember one particularly hot day draging a bunch of fish back to the truck. Fish that we did not shoot. :mad:

My hope is that it is something like that. But I know there are plenty of inconsideerate folks out there and maybe a ticket is the only way to teach them. :( (whatever method they use.)

I also hope this gets resolved soon. The spillway is a cool place to shoot for those w/o a boat.

The spillway is a cool place to shoot for those w/o a boat.
They require people bowfishing the Carlyle spillway to be in boats. I don't know about Rend or other lakes.

Thanks for the correction Life. You are exactly right. To Bowfish below the Carlyle lake spillway you must be in a boat.

I was speaking (typing actually ;)) of Rend's spillway.

Thanks for the correction Life. You are exactly right. To Bowfish below the Carlyle lake spillway you must be in a boat.

I was speaking (typing actually ;)) of Rend's spillway.

OR

South of the suspension bridge along the shore...

Right you are Ron.

I don't know what it's worth... but.... I've heard from several people that were advised below the Carlyle dam by cpo's. That if they caught an asian carp and didn't want to keep it, they were obligated to cut it the entire length of the belly and put it back in the water:confused: And it was against the law to release said fish, alive back into the waters or leave on the shoreline?

Maybe someone could clarify this:rolleyes::confused:

I believe that is correct Ron. It's also illegal to keep them alive in your live well. If you intend on keeping them, you're also require to dispatch them.

(I) Injurious Species:
Snakeheads, Walking Catfish, Zebra
Mussels, River Ruffe, Black Carp, Gobies
(Round, Tubenose), Rusty Crayfish, Rudd,
Bighead Carp, Silver Carp.
There are no catch or size limits.
Possession of live specimens, progeny
thereof, viable egg, or gametes is prohibited.
For rusty crayfish, possession of living
specimens is prohibited except the
holders of an approved aquaculture permit
with a letter of authorization to
import/possess this species.

I am down there all the time with my club members. we have seen bank fishermen catch gar and carp and stab them with a knife in the air bladder and throw them back in as well.

so my question is why is everyone so quick to blame the bowfishermen for dead fish laying everywhere?

our club has also done as kendall had said and picked up dead fish laying on the banks and disposed of them.

Im quick to blame because I see them do it. Its amazing how you will see bowfisherman without a stringer of fish. I watch them reel them up and the fish disappears back into the water. Ok and if you are going to dispose of an asian carp which you should cut the swim bladder and the fish will never float agian. Like I said im not blaming all bowfisherman but the people who shoot below the Rend Lake Spillway without stringers. I blame them.

Im quick to blame because I see them do it. Its amazing how you will see bowfisherman without a stringer of fish. I watch them reel them up and the fish disappears back into the water. Ok and if you are going to dispose of an asian carp which you should cut the swim bladder and the fish will never float agian. Like I said im not blaming all bowfisherman but the people who shoot below the Rend Lake Spillway without stringers. I blame them.

As a bowfisherman I apologize for the unethical actions you have seen and any mess unethical bowfishermen have caused in the areas you recreate in.
Its very true that rod/reel fishermen do the same but as a bowfisherman I am concerned with the actions of some slobs who are too lazy to dispose of their fish in a proper manner. ANYONE who cares about the sport of bowfishing, and the outdoor sports in general condemns this kind of activity. It is a problem popping up all over the state and the country. Several times this year illegal fish dumping has been reported up here, and upon examination the fish had arrow holes in them. But its not always the bowfishermen. I had a Indiana DNR guy mention a bunch of carp someone left in the bushes at the Lasalle F&W area, telling me they were bowfished carp. We were at the site and saw hooks and line cut off in their mouths. We let the guy know it wasnt bowfishermen.

This is not meant to lessen the problem of fish dumping by bowfishermen but shows its a problem all fishermen have.

The BAI has taken an active stand against illegal fish dumping, making a statement where anyone caught doing this will not be allowed at our shoots or in the club. We are also posting these signs we designed, made and paid for wherever there is a problem with fish dumping. Hopefully this will make some aware that its a problem, and also make others aware that many many bowfishermen deplore this behavior and take their sport seriously. I have sent one of these to Jerry and sharon this week to post at the spillway if the powers that be allow it.

http://i29.tinypic.com/2vns5yb.jpg

Joe those signs are a super way to take some proactive action! I applaud you!

I found two big piles of fish at Beck's last week.. carp, drum, and a mess of big cats! Cats that I would have never just left.. they were stacked up neatly , (and yes some still had hooks and cut off line in them :( ).. not too far from the remains of still smoldering campfire.. my guess is somebody tightlining the night before..

I myself have witnessed on several occasions these accused acts by certain “bowfisherman” at the Rend Spillway. I think main cause is ignorance. These guys are out there in broad daylight on the “catwalk”, I herd it called, shooting fish and then just discarding back into the water or in the rip rap behind them. This is a high traffic, high tourist, and high CPO area. Anyone can easily watch them do it, it’s like they have no education of the regulations. To be honest I have never personally witnessed a bow fisherman at this particular location carrying out any fish what so ever. It is heavily posted that “No Snagging” is allowed at this location by hook and line fisherman and I believe there will soon be signs stating no bowfishing is allowed if these acts continue.
Yes there have always bee discarded fish down there but, I believe in recent years with the popularity of bowfishing has grown the abundance of that carcasses has drastically increased. I think since this sport is so “new” the regulations need to be brought out in greater efforts to the general public before ignorance ruins it for the educated and law abiding bow fisherman.
I personally agree that the sport is a good thing for are fisheries and is helping control our rough fish populations. I do not agree that the outcome of some people ignorance should ruin it for other sportsmen. But the number of complaints and discussions by non bow fisherman seems to be growing just as fast as the sport. At least I am hearing them more often.

I myself have witnessed on several occasions these accused acts by certain “bowfisherman” at the Rend Spillway. I think main cause is ignorance. These guys are out there in broad daylight on the “catwalk”, I herd it called, shooting fish and then just discarding back into the water or in the rip rap behind them. This is a high traffic, high tourist, and high CPO area. Anyone can easily watch them do it, it’s like they have no education of the regulations. To be honest I have never personally witnessed a bow fisherman at this particular location carrying out any fish what so ever. It is heavily posted that “No Snagging” is allowed at this location by hook and line fisherman and I believe there will soon be signs stating no bowfishing is allowed if these acts continue.
Yes there have always bee discarded fish down there but, I believe in recent years with the popularity of bowfishing has grown the abundance of that carcasses has drastically increased. I think since this sport is so “new” the regulations need to be brought out in greater efforts to the general public before ignorance ruins it for the educated and law abiding bow fisherman.
I personally agree that the sport is a good thing for are fisheries and is helping control our rough fish populations. I do not agree that the outcome of some people ignorance should ruin it for other sportsmen. But the number of complaints and discussions by non bow fisherman seems to be growing just as fast as the sport. At least I am hearing them more often.

Public perception
It can do a lot to hurt any sport or in this case bowfishing's image.
In the eyes of the average non-hunter/fishermen (not anti-hunter/fishermen) they most likely dont even know a law is being broken just how the dead fish looks/smells and effect's the area ?

PUBLIC PERCEPTION just think about how it can effect any outdoor sport you love even if it isn't violating any laws. :)

Exactly Flat... exactly...

That sign is awsome. Just reading that sign will make you think about dumping fish. How man of those signs do you have up? Excellent work....

PUBLIC PERCEPTION just think about how it can effect any outdoor sport you love even if it isn't violating any laws. :)

I feel sorry for those who allow others , who in many cases have no concept of reality, influence their lives. Yes these fish should be disposed of in a proper manner, make no bones about it, but lets not turn this into something its not.:rolleyes: I think we as outdoors folk should have enough integrity in what we believe in, or at least what we tell others we believe in, as outdoors folk to not question ourselves and our own values and allow non-outdoor folk to instigate discourse in ourselves or amongst our ranks.:)

but lets not turn this into something its not.:rolleyes:

I'm not turning it into something it's not it was pdsink's PUBLIC PERCEPTION that bow fishermen were causing this dead fish issue.
I'm also pretty sure pdsink isn't a non-hunter/fishermen.

Your not going to change my opinion and I'm not changing yours and it's all good but I'm not going to stop voicing my opinion because you or others dont agree with it just as I know you wont hesitate to voice yours.


I feel sorry for those who allow others , who in many cases have no concept of reality, influence their lives.

I guess EJoe and his club are doing just that allowing "others to influence their lives"
Why bother putting the signs up who cares what others think ???

I think we as outdoors folk should have enough integrity in what we believe in, or at least what we tell others we believe in, as outdoors folk to not question ourselves and our own values and allow non-outdoor folk to instigate discourse in ourselves or amongst our ranks.

Personally I dont question myself, I carry myself accordingly to what I believe in which is always be aware of the PUBLIC PERCEPTION I'm leaving.
I dont claim to be perfect but I do try to practice what I preach just as I'm sure you do.
No need to start a debate about this we both know where we stand on it and it doesn't mean I dislike you or anyone else just because they dont agree with me or see it the way I do.

I'm not turning it into something it's not it was pdsink's PUBLIC PERCEPTION that bow fishermen were causing this dead fish issue.
I'm also pretty sure pdsink isn't a non-hunter/fishermen.

Your not going to change my opinion and I'm not changing yours and it's all good but I'm not going to stop voicing my opinion because you or others dont agree with it just as I know you wont hesitate to voice yours.




I guess EJoe and his club are doing just that allowing "others to influence their lives"
Why bother putting the signs up who cares what others think ???



Personally I dont question myself, I carry myself accordingly to what I believe in which is always be aware of the PUBLIC PERCEPTION I'm leaving.
I dont claim to be perfect but I do try to practice what I preach just as I'm sure you do.
No need to start a debate about this we both know where we stand on it and it doesn't mean I dislike you or anyone else just because they dont agree with me or see it the way I do.
Why not debate? I think friendly conversation is healthy. What else we got to talk about? Theres seventeen days till squirrel season.:rolleyes: Its fine to educate, but IMHO that we outdoors folk as a community should never stop doing what we do because we are afraid of others perception. Thats all I'm saying or ever said.And i don't keep bring it up every chance i get.:)

Not to change the subject ..but I have seen commericial fisherman dump silver & big head carp on banks of rivers. I've only seen this in low traffic areas. Which is probably ok???..IDk if it's legal or not..But I'm sure the yotes, raccoons and other critters have a feast..

Not to change the subject ..but I have seen commericial fisherman dump silver & big head carp on banks of rivers. I've only seen this in low traffic areas. Which is probably ok???..IDk if it's legal or not..But I'm sure the yotes, raccoons and other critters have a feast..
Maybe they can be charged with "improper disposal of dead animals" I know farmers can be. Are commercial fishers governed by the dept of ag?

ok Fun I'll take the hook.


but IMHO that we outdoors folk as a community should never stop doing what we do because we are afraid of others perception.

I think this is where your not picking up what I'm throwing down.

I never meant to give the impression I change what I am doing specifically because I am afraid of others.
I love & live bow hunting (as much as possible for me anyway) and I hold myself to the standards I feel I should while bow hunting.
With in those standards I take it upon myself to not do things that may jeopardize the future of bow hunting no matter how minor it may seem at the time.
Example
Not field dressing a deer (public land) in a area that non-hunters (again not ANTI-hunters) may see the remains while on a walking trail.
It may be easier for me to field dress this deer close to the trail but in turn I take the chance of souring a non-hunter if they spot the remains and causing them to become more of a ANTI-hunter.

Is this example petty maybe but if it helps keep 1 non-hunter from shifting to become a ANTI-hunter that little bit of extra work was worth it to me.

A non-hunter might not vote against bow hunting regulation but I'll bet a ANTI-hunter will if given the chance.

ok Fun I'll take the hook.




I think this is where your not picking up what I'm throwing down.

I never meant to give the impression I change what I am doing specifically because I am afraid of others.
I love & live bow hunting (as much as possible for me anyway) and I hold myself to the standards I feel I should while bow hunting.
With in those standards I take it upon myself to not do things that may jeopardize the future of bow hunting no matter how minor it may seem at the time.
Example
Not field dressing a deer (public land) in a area that non-hunters (again not ANTI-hunters) may see the remains while on a walking trail.
It may be easier for me to field dress this deer close to the trail but in turn I take the chance of souring a non-hunter if they spot the remains and causing them to become more of a ANTI-hunter.

Is this example petty maybe but if it helps keep 1 non-hunter from shifting to become a ANTI-hunter that little bit of extra work was worth it to me.

A non-hunter might not vote against bow hunting regulation but I'll bet a ANTI-hunter will if given the chance.
post mover....:rolleyes:

post mover....:rolleyes:

I accidentally entered (the first one) before I was finished, SILO timed out on me or something.
Wasn't on purpose.

I accidentally entered (the first one) before I was finished, SILO timed out on me or something.
Wasn't on purpose.
LOL...:rolleyes: Thats what they all say..:D

I Don't think it matters a RA how anti-hunters perceive hunters or where a hunter leaves a gut pile or not(in a public hunting area). The antis are not going to change their mind because you felt you needed to dress your deer away from a trail.

It's a Public hunting area and is to be used as such. Atleast that's what we've paid taxes for...

I Don't think it matters a RA how anti-hunters perceive hunters or where a hunter leaves a gut pile or not(in a public hunting area). The antis are not going to change their mind because you felt you needed to dress your deer away from a trail.

It's a Public hunting area and is to be used as such. Atleast that's what we've paid taxes for...

You are talking about anti-hunters and I am talking about non-hunters two different groups.

There is a difference (IMHO) but you always take the chance of pushing a non-hunter over to being a anti-hunter with just a few careless acts.
For that matter a non-hunter could be a mushroomer, bird watcher hiker etc.



I may be the only one posting this side of the debate but I'm not the only one here that sees it this way.
I always like hunters that have the screw everyone I paid taxes to do this or that attitude well those non-hunters also pay taxes and vote.

I guess next I will be told if they moved to the anti -hunter side that easily they would have went that way regardless of my actions.
What if that same non-hunter (in my previous post/example) passes a bow hunter as he/she was leaving the area and rather then seeing your gut pile they see you carrying out some trash some slob left laying around the woods ?
You just showed that non-hunter how a responsible outdoorsman acts and appreciates the the rights he/she has rather then being a slob hunter that has no regard for others.

You are talking about anti-hunters and I am talking about non-hunters two different groups.

There is a difference (IMHO) but you always take the chance of pushing a non-hunter over to being a anti-hunter with just a few careless acts.
For that matter a non-hunter could be a mushroomer, bird watcher hiker etc.



I may be the only one posting this side of the debate but I'm not the only one here that sees it this way.
I always like hunters that have the screw everyone I paid taxes to do this or that attitude well those non-hunters also pay taxes and vote.

I guess next I will be told if they moved to the anti -hunter side that easily they would have went that way regardless of my actions.
What if that same non-hunter (in my previous post/example) passes a bow hunter as he/she was leaving the area and rather then seeing your gut pile they see you carrying out some trash some slob left laying around the woods ?
You just showed that non-hunter how a responsible outdoorsman acts and appreciates the the rights he/she has rather then being a slob hunter that has no regard for others.


Non-hunter,anti-hunter whatever..Neither hunts so how could they undertand what it's about..But if interested I'd be happy to enlighten them. If they come to harrass another hunter or myself I'll do my best to have them arrested. I'm not hunting to try to sway someone to hunt or not to,or to even like it or to understand it unless they want to.. nor am I trying to give them ammo for anti-hunters. And yes I paid taxes and lic fees,permits, federal taxes,stamps, gear, ammo, practise, effort ,fuel, success,failure etc...And I vote Too! So the non-hunter should appreciate hunters as we are the best conservationist and stewards of wildlife and habitat and much of our taxes and fees goes for that cause, not to mention specific wildlife organizations like NWTF, Quail Unlimited ,Ducks unlimited, RMEF, pheasants forever,WhiteTails Unlimited etc....that we have invested money ,time and effort into for wildlifes sake and education.. I do not believe gutting a deer in a public hunting area is irresponsible. That's part of the problem in this country people want others to live the THEY see fit. That my friend is not freedom.

You are obviously very concerned how people perceive hunters. Yes perception is everything; But you also assume alot. I have yet to see a non-hunter in the areas I hunt. So maybe you hunt in a more publicly used area. Please do not assume I'm an unresponsible hunter either.

I've had bad experiences with POLITICIANS,Doctors, Lawyers,policemen,school teachers,baseball players,hunters,fishermen, pastors etc..name it.. It does not mean I've let some bad experiences drive me to become an anti-(insert name), which is why I see Anti-hunters as a Political agenda vs a chosen life style.

I have to say I agree with Flat on this. There is absolutely no reason to not try to show a little courtesy to others when public land is shared by many groups; shroomers, bird watchers, hikers, campers, fishermen... In my book they are all outdoorsmen, even if they aren't hunters.

I have to say I agree with Flat on this. There is absolutely no reason to not try to show a little courtesy to others when public land is shared by many groups; shroomers, bird watchers, hikers, campers, fishermen... In my book they are all outdoorsmen, even if they aren't hunters.

Courtesy is a TWO WAY Street...

Courtesy is a TWO WAY Street...

Yes, but we are only responsible for our side of that street. ;)

Yes, but we are only responsible for our side of that street. ;)
If every bow fisher would keep and properly dispose of every last one of their fish there would still be dead fish and there would still be bow fishers and there would still be others seeing these bow fishers and they will still place the blame on the bow fishers. This is where the problem lies when they expect you to be responsible for both sides of the street.:) We see how they think about gun control, we see how they think about putting America and Americans last because they are afraid of how others in the world perceive us and now we are suppose to think they are going to respect us for doing things they are not even aware of? Maybe all outdoor folk would benefit by making sign pointing out the fact that our time and money goes to fund parks. Don't get me wrong I think everybody has to do their part everyday to make the world a better place . I just don't think we should delude ourselves to the point where we are consumed by it.

If they would just put a big woodchipper at the spillway - people would think its cool to throw them in it and they could make fertilizer out of them. :D

Every Spillway has dead fish in it, and its not just the fisherman and bowfisherman causing it. This photo is along the waters edge at the spillway in April - the water is rough at the gate.

http://www.siloutdoors.com/imagehosting/5734a5e06e42aec2.jpg

Now leaving your trash is uncalled for - if you brought it, take it with you - unless its a really nice lure :D

If they would just put a big woodchipper at the spillway - people would think its cool to throw them in it and they could make fertilizer out of them. :D

Every Spillway has dead fish in it, and its not just the fisherman and bowfisherman causing it. This photo is along the waters edge at the spillway in April - the water is rough at the gate.

http://www.siloutdoors.com/imagehosting/5734a5e06e42aec2.jpg

Now leaving your trash is uncalled for - if you brought it, take it with you - unless its a really nice lure :D Or a nice 14 K gold diamond ring...:rolleyes:

If they would just put a big woodchipper at the spillway - people would think its cool to throw them in it and they could make fertilizer out of them. :D

Every Spillway has dead fish in it, and its not just the fisherman and bowfisherman causing it. This photo is along the waters edge at the spillway in April - the water is rough at the gate.

http://www.siloutdoors.com/imagehosting/5734a5e06e42aec2.jpg

Now leaving your trash is uncalled for - if you brought it, take it with you - unless its a really nice lure :D

Whew! I can smell that from here...:rolleyes::)

In April they don't stink - they just die and shrivel up like Japan's dried fish snake.
Now in June, July and August - you hold your breath until your about to pass out then you take a deep breath and suck in a fly once and a while.

so what ever happened to that outfit that was going to steam the fish and separate the oil from them, and make fertilizer from the remains? And create a new market for all the trash fish???

Why doesn't the state just have them put some dumpsters near the popular fishing areas for people to put the fish in? Then that company could just pick em up?

VICKS! Yes Vick's .. the old fashion rub on stuff.. even though I've retired I still carry a little jar.. we routinely used to glob it under out noses when dealing with death scenes.. works pretty good :)

VICKS! Yes Vick's .. the old fashion rub on stuff.. even though I've retired I still carry a little jar.. we routinely used to glob it under out noses when dealing with death scenes.. works pretty good :)

Doesn't that make your upper lip a Fly Trap?
http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/shop_image/product/c37467d05ed27a569d78fc60eeb38753.jpg

Please do not assume I'm an unresponsible hunter either.

I'm not assuming your anything if the shoe fits so be it if not dont let it bother you.
Seems to me your assuming because I take into consideration Public Perception of hunters I'm weak and let others run over me or my rights, if thats the case your incorrect.
I do keep in mind public perception but I'm not going to take it to the point that I am not enjoying my time bow hunting or in the woods.
I am fully aware that I have just as much right to do what I enjoy as the next person.
I'm not going to let a non-hunter bend me over the table if thats what your thinking.

You are obviously very concerned how people perceive hunters. Yes perception is everything; But you also assume a lot

This is all I have be saying all along, I dont see where I am assuming a lot.

I know your not John Wayne, this isn't a movie, we dont live in a bubble and if you dont think 11,919,293 non-hunters can have an effect on your hunting rights your naive.
But thats just my opinion what does it matter.

If I can help/persuade just one non-hunter to lean toward excepting (not becoming) hunters/hunting rather then having some smoke blowing animal rights activist show them a false story about hunters/hunting I'm good with that.

If your wondering how I got 11,919,293 non-hunters ?
Per IDNR web site IL has 500,000 registered not active hunters in their data base .
Are N/R included in that number it didn't say.
Per the 2000 census IL has 12,419,293 residents

It's dually noted that Bigduke is with Fun in that we wont agree on this subject.
But I wont/dont take that personally.
I would have responded sooner but was on a 500 mile road trip. :D

Ron, I think that place is in operation but up north. They were mentioned in that PSO article about the Redneck Rodeo up on the IL River.

Ok guys and gals, I have been talking with Army Corp of Engineers, Park Rangers, DNR Officers at Rend for awhile now and they have all sat down and made an agreement on what they want done with the fish below the spillway and along the adjacent canals below the Rend Lake Dam and the mouth of the Big Muddy River(and i am quoting this from 6 people i talked to)

"put the fish back in the water"

i know alot of you will not like this but its what was decided after their meetings about the problem.

They will be posting dozens of signs around the area to inform people on this and the same will be done below carlyle like Ron had said before.

if you have any questions ya can contact the Army Corps of Engineers or the Rend lake visitors center.

The BASI as a club are working with both groups (COE/DNR) to set up some area clean up dates for the spillway and that area and we would like to invite all of you to help out. We already have the help of the Illinois Bowfishers club

pdsink your more then welcome to come help with the clean up efforts, if you would like.

if anyone is interested shoot me a pm, once the dates are finalized i will be posting them on SILO.

"put the fish back in the water"


I am trying to understand this - so a fish is shot with a bow (its a dead fish) then it will be put back into the water.

I don't understand what this does? Won't this just make a bunch of dead fish along the banks edge? (Along with all the natural death and fisherman who throw them on the bank)

"Is a spillway stinky if no one is around?"

"Is a spillway stinky if no one is around?"


good one :D

Putting dead fish back in the water is gonna stink somewhere....
I just talked with several people and it is indeed true. What I was told is that there is such a problem with bowfishermen throwing the fish up on the bank that they decided it was the best thing to do to deal with the problem. Personally, I think it will just result in bowfishing getting tightly regulated or banned in the area after several hundred stinking fish wash up along the river every day and people get loud about it. Our club will continue to remove any fish shot from the area and dispose of them properly.

Guess what I was told was right:rolleyes:

Putting dead fish back in the water is gonna stink somewhere....


Putting dead fishanywhere is gonna stink somewhere...

So, I live in town, on a 1/4 acre lot surrounded by neighbors... I know NOBODY that wants these fish. I Might be able to find a farmer to let me spread em across a field, but not at this time of year...:cool:

What are my options on how to deal with this???:confused:

1. Quit bowfishing
2. Haul em out and drive somewhere CLOSER to people to find a place to dump fish.
3. Toss em back way out in the middle of nowhere all spread out all over the place wherever they got shot.
(I agree that in a highly fished public area this is unacceptable)


Any other suggestions?

EDIT: If anyone out there want to come pick up rough fish at the drop of a hat phone call, that have been sitting in a barrel, in my boat, for quite a few hours, in the middle of August, Please PM me and I'll give em to ya!

Well.... I talked to the gamewarden yesterday and you know what he said!!! DUMP THE FISH BACK IN THE WATER!! haha.... he said he has never wrote a ticket for doing that and didnt really think it was illegal. hmm.... and then he said who am i to say the fish is going to die... Guess I cant argue with the law. I suppose i raised a uproar about somthing that was legal to do. who would have thought.... soo all you bowfisherman get on down there a kill those fish.. throw them in the water because thats just how we do things around here and the next time i go to the spillway and enjoy the fishing and the FRESH air... I will keep my mouth shut because heck who would have thought that bow fishing was catch and release.... :eek:

Well, I bowfish every week and live in a populated suburb of Chicago. I dont leave my fish anywhere. Here is what we do. I like the taste of gar and grass carp. Bigmouth buffs are good too. So, I harvest these fish like any other game we hunt and put them on ice and in the freezer. Carp and other invasives? I just dont over bowfish. Ill take up to 6 fish usually, sometimes less. Shoot a few and then let the others be while I look for a trophy. The fish that go into the trash are put into a double plastic garbage bag and into an old freezer in the garage until its garbage day. When cleaning fish I do the same. Before the freezer I would put them into the bag with bleach to keep the smell down until garbage day. I guess you just need to know what your going to do with them before you go, and how many you can properly dispose of. If you cant do this and will end up dumping them, then yes....quit bowfishing.

Guess you could haul them up to peoria???

http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/grinding_carp_into_something_useful/

Look I'm just looking for clarification here... I'm not saying what I do, but am playing devils advocate... (It's what I do occasionally. Nothing personal.)

1. We are dealing for the most part with invasive species that NO ONE has any clue on how to eradicate. Any means possibles seems better than none. You can't "over bowfish" for them.

2. Most folks I know have numerous freezers, all full of better stuff than carp.

3. In today's GREEN TINTED world. It is better to throw a plastic bag and bleach in a landfill than to feed the turtles???

4. Should you quit bow hunting deer if all you can shoot is trophy's?

AGAIN, in a place where bank fishing is prevalent, or a lake gets a lot of pleasure craft, you should take out your fish I believe! BUT in a back water swamp rarely visited by anyone that would be offended, is it REALLY an issue?

I appreciate the debate... calmly...

Look I'm just looking for clarification here... I'm not saying what I do, but am playing devils advocate... (It's what I do occasionally. Nothing personal.)

1. We are dealing for the most part with invasive species that NO ONE has any clue on how to eradicate. Any means possibles seems better than none. You can't "over bowfish" for them.

2. Most folks I know have numerous freezers, all full of better stuff than carp.

3. In today's GREEN TINTED world. It is better to throw a plastic bag and bleach in a landfill than to feed the turtles???

4. Should you quit bow hunting deer if all you can shoot is trophy's?

AGAIN, in a place where bank fishing is prevalent, or a lake gets a lot of pleasure craft, you should take out your fish I believe! BUT in a back water swamp rarely visited by anyone that would be offended, is it REALLY an issue?

I appreciate the debate... calmly...

I see what your saying, but the problem is if one person can put the fish back in, everyone can. So that backwater area gets one or two people putting them back in, no big deal. But now you go to the spillway or somewhere more popular....say your backwater gets more popular. Then 10, 20, 30 bowfishermen a day throw say 20 fish back in. Now you have 200 fish with the 10 guys, 400 fish with the 20, 600 fish with 30. Thats not only going to smell but also mess up the fishery for everyone.

Who knows, maybe the big muddy is large enough to handle hundreds or thousands of fish a week, maybe your backwater can. But personally, I dont think its a good idea and dont show much respect for others. Just my opinion though.....

Quit deer hunting if all you could shoot is trophies? I dont see the connection there. IF I didnt like the taste of deer but liked to kill them , say they were overpopulated and needed thinning, and left piles of them along the road side should I then quit deer hunting?

By overbowfishing I didnt mean take too many invasive fish where it would hurt their population, I meant overbowfish where I took too many fish and didnt have a place to properly dispose of the amount I took. Eg...I hae room for 6 carp in my trash or garden, but not 50.

The plastic bag in the landfill is not good, but bleach is fine. Actually used to treat drinking water and in the environment eventually breaks down into water, oxygen, and table salt the same chemicals that are used to create it.

Alot of fish laying around is unsightly, granted. But I would much wrather see the dead fish going downstream, VS sitting on the bank in a highly visited area.

The natural system of a river will take care of itself. Bank visitor vermin will consume some of the fish, and the other fish in the water will take care of others... but I do think people could overload the natural system.

IMO, if there is going to be a organized event such as a bowfishing tourney, why not get a hole dug? Seems most the time the local dnr office, or lake caretakers will take care of it, or atleast find a place to dispose of them.

True dat Ron!!! If there is a day where NUMEROUS bowfishers descend on an area, all efforts should be made to dispose of the mess properly. This is an influx of bowfishing in a certain area, on a certain day, and not a couple a guys, during the week outing, with nobody around! PLus the fact that everyone will have a barrel of fish... it isn't one here, one there, if they dump that it is a PILE!

I wonder if that Heartland Processing LLC has thought about putting dumpsters out for the bowfishing tourneys?

I looked around for a site on them, I can find all sorts of articles on them reclaiming the fish, but not a website for them?????

I could mhave sworn they had a different name before and the LLC was a coporate name or something. I'll try and find it.

These are the folks I was thinking about:
http://www.schaferfish.com/

I kinda like this article too:
http://http://www.wickedlocal.com/norwich/news/business/x1633047454

Oh one more thing. The gamewarden also said that if he saw someone throwing fish on the bank then he would write them a ticket. So it is against the law to throw them on the ground but its not against the law to throw them in the water...

Thanks to Red for checking into this for us.
I think one thing that was missed here was that they said to slit the belly/air bladder. This will insure they sink and don't become a floating problem.
Ron is exactly right, the ecosystem will take care of itself. A couple of years back I shot a buffalo fish at the spillway and right at the bank it got off the arrow (on it's own w/o my help.) I watched to see if I could see it again because I hit it pretty good and was sure it wouldn't live. Then we saw a blood slick in the middle of the channel. As we stood there watching in amazement a softshell turtle surfaced just down stream of the blood then dove right for it. :eek: Dinner is served. :cool:
Even so, I think that we should remove our catch as much as possible.
Bob, don't think that just because it's summer you can't find fields to dispose of fish. Before we got the loader to dig holes I put fish in corn fields (Where I had permission) by carrying them down the rows to get them back where they are out of "nose" range. If you lay them out, they will dry up rather fast.

IMO, if there is going to be a organized event such as a bowfishing tourney, why not get a hole dug? Seems most the time the local dnr office, or lake caretakers will take care of it, or atleast find a place to dispose of them.

At fishing tourneys we usually get a big hole dug by the dnr, but when that isnt an option dumpsters have been used. And there are many other ways tourney fish are disposed of such as local wild life rehab centers, farmers, zoos, fertilizer companies among many other ways. But if you are not shooting close to a thousand fish or more most of these options are not available, exspecially if you are just out shooting by yourself or with a few buddies.

Oh one more thing. The gamewarden also said that if he saw someone throwing fish on the bank then he would write them a ticket. So it is against the law to throw them on the ground but its not against the law to throw them in the water...

You are absolutely right anyone caught throwing the fish on the bank will be fined, and at the spillway they said they will fine the max amount for throwing them on the bank. but as long and you put them back in the water you will not be bothered.

and as Kendal said I did forget in my first post you are suppose to deflate the air/swim bladder and usually the air bladder is found just behind the gill plate. this will secure that the fish will not float to the top, for people to see or to stink to high heaven.

I haven't been posting on this thread, but have been following it closely because we fish the Carlyle spillway quite a bit. This is very good information, and I appreciate your work in getting it for us. The part about deflating the air/swim bladder and trowing the fish back in the water is applicable to those of us who bank fish as well as those who bow fish.

Well, my final thought on this. I think its just plain stupid! You might have had a few people acting unethically throwing fish up on the shoreline, and rather than police the area a bit and fine those who did this you make it OK for everyone to do the same thing, not on the shore but in the water. Thats like having people knowingly shoot illegal fish and instead of correcting or citing those who did it, you change the regulations to make it legal for everyone to shoot those fish. Now instead of a few people throwing fish on the shore EVERYONE will be throwing them in the water. A few fish would be no problem but everyone knows how many fish bowfishermen can take from the water. Like I said, I might be wrong and the river will take care of the fish, but I also see what might be a bad situation that may result and bowfishing being strictly regulated.

One other thing I was told by the corps yesterday was that any tournament of any size held in the spillway will need a permit and a dumpster or other ways of proper disposal will be required to keep massive amounts of fish being put into the water.

Regardless if putting fish back in the water works or not, I feel it is extremely embarrassing to the sport of bowfishing that regulations had to be changed "...because the problem of bowfishermen leaving fish on the shore was so bad....." Not a good way for the DNR and Im sure the media to sit up and take notice of bowfishing.

...This is very good information, and I appreciate your work in getting it for us. The part about deflating the air/swim bladder and trowing the fish back in the water is applicable to those of us who bank fish as well as those who bow fish.

Absolutely right. If everyone will do this and "police up" their trash the spillway will continue to be a great place to enjoy...for everyone.

Well, my final thought on this. I think its just plain stupid! You might have had a few people acting unethically throwing fish up on the shoreline, and rather than police the area a bit and fine those who did this you make it OK for everyone to do the same thing, not on the shore but in the water.
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but some guy named Blo-go or Bag-o-shivich or something like that (where is he from?) has almost completely gutted the DNR's funding. CPOs have to cover multiple counties on $200 of gas a MONTH. They already spend quite a bit of time there as it is. Now some guy named Quinn is continuing that tradition.

Thats like having people knowingly shoot illegal fish and instead of correcting or citing those who did it, you change the regulations to make it legal for everyone to shoot those fish. Now instead of a few people throwing fish on the shore EVERYONE will be throwing them in the water. A few fish would be no problem but everyone knows how many fish bowfishermen can take from the water. Like I said, I might be wrong and the river will take care of the fish, but I also see what might be a bad situation that may result and bowfishing being strictly regulated.

How do you equate this to taking illegal fish? :confused: These are the rules. And as Red said after talking with the COE, they haven't changed. This is what the COE wanted all along. Yes. If they follow the rules everyone will be. Except for a few who still remove their fish.


One other thing I was told by the corps yesterday was that any tournament of any size held in the spillway will need a permit and a dumpster or other ways of proper disposal will be required to keep massive amounts of fish being put into the water.

We've been holding tournaments at Rend for years and that's the way it's always been. Like I said above nothing's changed only clarified.

Regardless if putting fish back in the water works or not, I feel it is extremely embarrassing to the sport of bowfishing that regulations had to be changed "...because the problem of bowfishermen leaving fish on the shore was so bad....." Not a good way for the DNR and Im sure the media to sit up and take notice of bowfishing.

Two things here...(1)They weren't changed! (2) dead fish does not = Bowfish. Especially below a spillway.
Perhaps rather than call the COE stupid, you should look at the Tennesse and Cumberland rivers where they shoot more fish in a weekend than are taken by any means below Rend in a year. KY has allowed putting fish back for as long as I can remember with no problems.

I was going to ask if anybody had solicited an opinion from an IDNR biologist as to whether large amounts of dead fish in the spillway waters would have a deleterious effect or would just be another food source. Inquiring minds wanna know.

well when they made the decision the fish biologist was right there i am sure to put in his imput on the situation and i am sure he would not let anything happen that would put the fishery in any harm. He is one of the best at what he does and that is just something you can guarantee he had a say in.

oh and about it just being a bowfishing thing IT IS NOT!!! It is a problem from every aspect of fishing be it bank, bow, bare hands or any other means they said everyone is doing it down there not just people with bows.

Just an FYI....I would NOT start throwing fish back in just yet. I talked with the site super, Ralph, at W. Fitz. park today and he told me he knew nothing at all about it. Still have his message saying so on my cell. He will be talking with law enforcement today and the corps. Again, he knew nothing at all about this and they want people to remove their fish when taken.

I have never seen a rule in writing saying to put dead fish back in the water. On the contrary there are many rules saying no dead fish or parts of fish may be returned to the water.

One more thing, popping the swim bladder to make the fish sink was mentioned a couple times. While this causes the fish to initially sink, gasses formed when the fish (or any animal) begins to decay will pop them right back to the surface, whole or whatever is left after a turtle munches on them. Then you will have some nice fuzzy bloated fish floating around. Thats going to be nice when the spillway isnt flowing much on a hot summer day.

Wayne Fitzgerrell State Park is not part of the Spillway.

If the dude from Wayne Fitzgerell SP didn't know anything about it, it wasn't a problem to begin with...


Hence the conundrum....

oh and about it just being a bowfishing thing IT IS NOT!!! It is a problem from every aspect of fishing be it bank, bow, bare hands or any other means they said everyone is doing it down there not just people with bows.

Maybe I should let a sleeping dog lie, but Red is right on this one. Me and my wife are out bowfishing quite a bit at Rend, maybe 3 - 4 times a week, spillway and creek west of the spillway, and in the last three weeks, we saw maybe ... 1 other bowfisherman. This guy was like us, didn't shoot just to kill but looking for something special. Needless to say, he didn't shoot anything either that day. The fish the people are seeing and have seen in the last month are fish caught on rod and reel. The spring fair weather bowfishermen are done for the year. Once the sun heats up, they are done for. I, too have spoken to some people from the Corps of Eng. and they admitted that they were wrong about blaming just bowfishermen. It is a problelm coming from all sides, not just one. I personally feel that each of us should do what we think is right. Our future, our kids and grandkids future could be riding on our actions. Let's not let them down.

It is a problelm coming from all sides, not just one. I personally feel that each of us should do what we think is right.

It definately is everyones problem. And one everyone must work together to resolve.
How do you dispose of your fish, Jerry? As someone who is down there regularly, do think the COE's solution will work?

I personally feel that each of us should do what we think is right. .

Good point Jerry. And personally, I think the ONLY thing an ethical outdoorsman be it a bowfisherman or R&R fisherman can do is to leave the outdoors cleaner when they leave than when they got there. And that dont mean leaving fish remains to fester and stink be it on the land or in the water after they float up when decaying. Any bowfisherman or fisherman who throws trash, be it pop cans or dead fish into the waters or shores has no business in the outdoors IMO.

Good point Jerry. And personally, I think the ONLY thing an ethical outdoorsman be it a bowfisherman or R&R fisherman can do is to leave the outdoors cleaner when they leave than when they got there. And that dont mean leaving fish remains to fester and stink be it on the land or in the water after they float up when decaying. Any bowfisherman or fisherman who throws trash, be it pop cans or dead fish into the waters or shores has no business in the outdoors IMO.



Yes sir, I believe it should be no different than when you go into the woods.."Leave no sign you were there".."Only leave tracks"...

However some of us even dispose of those..:eek::D

It definately is everyones problem. And one everyone must work together to resolve.
How do you dispose of your fish, Jerry? As someone who is down there regularly, do think the COE's solution will work?

Ok, as far as personal disposal, let's just say our freezer is full, and our friends and relatives gardens are flourishing. Whether or not it will work is hard to say. With the lake high and the river running hard the way it is now, yes... the fish will be taken downstream, but they will wind up somewhere. Somebody will eventually see or smell them. Out of sight, out of mind seems to fit here. The problem is the people who have done this or who is still doing it is not the people who enjoy or spend a lot of time out there. They are what I call fair weather bowfishermen or fishermen. Out when the weather is nice or once a month to get away from the family or pressures of the job. They don't care. They don't see it 2 or 3 times a week. They throw the gar on the bank, behind some rocks, they forget about it... out of sight, out of mind. The people who really care, the ones who enjoy bowfishing the most, are the ones suffering from it. Conservation officers are practically helpless. To catch a person doing this would be darn near impossible. heck, i saw a guy shoot a 20 pound spoonbill a month ago, bowfished for another 30 minutes, got it up to his car trunk and drove away scott free. I have seen dead fish on the bank since I started bowfishing here in 1987. I don't think it will ever change. It is a slob thing that people do. My opinion is.... it will keep the spillway cleaner, but, it is a bandaid, not a solution. What can be done? Without a 24 hour security guard, and with the mind set of the people out there, NOTHING. We are fighting human laziness. Just that simple.

There is the problem with this idea Jerry. NOW, only the slobs are throwing the fish back. People with some sense of pride for what they are doing take their fish. Now you change the regulation where everyone can throw them back in. You know as well as I do 90% of the people will start doing so,its going to end up somewhere and its going to stink! Jerry, in a hot mid summer, how slow does the river move or the spillway water? Is there ever a time where its pretty slow? How would it be at this time when the 100-1000 fish thrown in over a weekend bloat up and start floating around the spillway? Would this be a good place to bring the kids??

And personally, I think the ONLY thing an ethical outdoorsman be it a bowfisherman or R&R fisherman can do is to leave the outdoors cleaner when they leave than when they got there. And that dont mean leaving fish remains to fester and stink be it on the land or in the water after they float up when decaying. Any bowfisherman or fisherman who throws trash, be it pop cans or dead fish into the waters or shores has no business in the outdoors IMO.

Ahhh.... the word ethics rears it's ugly head again... anyone shoot for the head when they bowfish???:eek:

Is it morally right to dictate ethics???? LOL:D

anyone shoot for the head when they bowfish???


Only if it's a BigHead (carp) at no more then 20 yards and i know there is no way it could move before my 330fps bow gets the arrow to the target. :cool: